Curse

sigshane · Aug 06, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

What is QQ, exactly?

No flames, please...

sigshane · Aug 06, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

If casual players find that obtaining FoW and tormented is utterly frustrating and requires several hundreds of hours which they don't want to spend in a videogame, they will simply quit the game, like any sensible person would do.
And they will not be interested in other chapters, nor in GW2.

Instead if casual players realize that with a "reasonable" effort they can put a FoW and/or a tormented item in they HoM, they will be proud and satisfied with those achievements, they will think and say everybody that GW is a great game, and will look forward in buying GW2.

He's talking about ME. I am the guy who was very proud when finishing Weh No Su, adding my Black Moa companion to my HoM, and when I (hopefully) am successful taming a pre-searing black bear.

I will probably only ever get one set of prestige armor, if any, for the majority of my characters. It just takes too long, requires too much of my LIFETIME to do.

I see these guys selling swords for like 100k + n ectos, and I wonder how long they had to sit in front of their computers, and what else they could have been doing? After years of being virtually enslaved to it, what can they really say they accomplished?

I love Guild Wars. I have forsaken all other games for it. But if aNet doesn't control the economy, only the top 1% will ever have the supreme goodies.

And that will be no secret. Who the hell wants to play a game in which they know they may never get to enjoy the best armor, weapons, etc.?

If aNet has to put in place what seems like the Guild Wars equivalent of a salary cap, to make it fair for everyone, then what's the problem?

Now I am not talking about killing off honest diligence and effort here. I think that anyone who goes about and kills things, completes things, and earns rewards, then good on him. But most casual gamers don't have stacks of shards laying around, or 42 characters they can load up with ecto's and diamonds with.

Just my opinion(s).

*putting my asbestos flameproof suit on now!*

Loot Junkie · Aug 06, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

QQ is the internet "emote" for crying since it looks like 2 eyes with tears flowing from them. The sad thing is, i get that people use shortcuts when typing out stuff since it's obviously easier, but when people actually say "QQ" in speech while on vent that is just sad. It's as if the word "crying" has been erased from the english language.

nassaubob check your inbox plzthnx

sigshane · Aug 06, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

i agree, working for it is the way, as long as I don't have to grow old to do it.

I can see me now, gray-haired and feeble, looking like frickin' Stephen Hawking, trying to get Obsidian Armor for my Paragon...LOL

R.Shayne · Aug 06, 2008, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

My God you are still missing the point. Anet needs BOTH casual and hardcore to have a thriving game. Do you hear me ... BOTH.

Recent updates have tilted the game towards casual only ... there is little left for hardcore players to distinguish themselves. That is bad for the game as a whole.

I suggest you go to some seminar on game development. You may find that key note speaker (industry leaders) feel a little different. In the end Game Development is a business and it is currently ruled by suits (game publishers) that don’t give a **** about your lack of distinguished hardcore. Read some articles published here, http://www.gamasutra.com/ Phil Harrison had a nice one on hardcore players and Atari shift away from them and also mention end game content that is not seen by most players (Elite areas would be an example of this).

Shadow Form buff and nerf made some happy (silent majority) and made some whine (vocal minority). The fact that the CR mentions getting emails from players has me wondering how many did she have sent to her.

sigshane · Aug 06, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

I agree here. All things being equal, it seems to be the hardcore gamers who quickly tire of a game and move on, not the casual ones. Heck, I bet I am the only one reading this forum thread right now that has yet to finish any campaigns OR earned any prestige armor yet. Any takers?

Am I right or right here, people? Who leaves a gaming community first, hardcore guys or casual guys?

Shane

Dark Paladin X · Aug 06, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

If you actually read the previous Developer Update, they are "exploring solutions" and they are planning to "slow down builds that keep Shadow Form up permanently." Apparently, they did not mention anything about the Underworld. So in other words, 50% dmg penalty+ not able to maintain Shadow Form= big total hurt on farming bosses and raptors. Of course, some are quite innovative and start using the Burning Speed version to farm in the UW (I actually found this to be too slow, so I decided to stop farming in the UW).

Then at Linsey's talk page someone mentions that the Mindblade Spectre are attacking in melee and suggested having them attack in range. Although I find this to be a stupider idea, it is better if they just remove the damn damage penalty of Shadow Form and just make Chaos Planes harder!! Of course, if some of idiots want ecto prices to go up, then put all the blame in one skill. However, keep in mind that raising ecto prices would actually discourage people to get some popular armor and everlasting tonics and would make the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's GW capitalism 101.

Kanyatta · Aug 06, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

You contradicted yourself.

If SF farming is still going on, then SF didn't get "killed", as you say.

inb4 lock

Day Trooper · Aug 06, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

What did the 'SF killing'

do?

I'll tell you what it did - it made the game's most powerful farming skill just a bit more balanced!

Even with the 50% damage reduction (hint - easily gotten around by using Ebon Battle Standard of Honor

), why use anything else but SF? Let's look at SF's advantages:

* All spells that target you fail
* All attacks that target you miss
* Can keep up permanently
* No speed reduction while using SF

Since I'm an ele, I'll now compare SF to Obsidian Flesh:

* Both prevent enemies from targeting you with spells
* Both can be kept up permanently
* Obby Flesh does not affect enemy attacks. Advantage SF
* Obby Flesh has 50% reduction in movement speed. Advantage SF

How about Mist Form?

* Both can be kept up permanently
* MF - enemy spells can still target you. Advantage SF
* MF - while you take no damage from enemy attacks, the attacks still HIT you (and can thus interrupt). Advantage SF

So yeah, even with the 'nerf' SF is still the clear winner here.

Now let the QQing

over any 'SF killing' stop plz!

Loot Junkie · Aug 06, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Day trooper made a very interesting comment about Ebon Battle Standard of Honor. To me the skill description describes a buff to attack damage and yet spells get extra damage too which is why SF farmers use it in conjunction with sliver armor. The funny thing is, the skill description specifically states that it will not boost the damage from spirit attacks. It seems very strange indeed that anet consciously made it so that EBSoH will not buff spirit attacks in light of the fact that there is so much more high powered stuff in this game. /startsarcasm....were they afraid that spirit spammers would overfarm snow wurms?.../endsarcasm. I find the whole "wont work on spirits but works on spells" thing quite laughable. Perhaps part of this "monster" update we are getting this week
will be a fixing of this ward so that it functions according to the skill description.

Riceboi · Aug 06, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Can they just totally murder sf with this update so I can finally just move with my life? Waiting for sc2 and d3 anyways. Screw this game.

Gibz · Aug 06, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

How many ectos do you have?

A.net is not interested in the "value" (lol) of your pink globes.

For their business model, they need that as many casual players as possible are able to enjoy every aspect of the game, included the FoW armor and tormented weapons.

Casual gamers are by far the largest majority.
They are those who bring money to A.net, the money needed to continue their business.
A.net need to sell millions of accounts, not just some thousands accounts to a bunch of few "dedicated" (= lifeless) 24h/day players.

If casual players find that obtaining FoW and tormented is utterly frustrating and requires several hundreds of hours which they don't want to spend in a videogame, they will simply quit the game, like any sensible person would do.
And they will not be interested in other chapters, nor in GW2.

Instead if casual players realize that with a "reasonable" effort they can put a FoW and/or a tormented item in they HoM, they will be proud and satisfied with those achievements, they will think and say everybody that GW is a great game, and will look forward in buying GW2.

What is the meaning of "reasonable"?
FoW armor at 650-700k is reasonable, it means 70-80 hours playing in endgame areas.
FoW at 1.5M is more than double time, and not so many casual players will consider it worth such amount of time, so they'll give up.
Tormented weapons in 15-20 hours of ursan runs are reasonable. 3-4 times that amount of hours is a waste of time for the majority of players.

A.net needs to be very smart to decide what is the "reasonable" level.
They don't have to set too high because of what I wrote before, but even not too low because otherwise they would remove the "challenging feeling" from the game.

That's why they introduced ursan and permasin, and now they will "tune" in order to find the best compromise.

Remember always that A.net cannot make a game for few thousands of people with stacks of ectos in their inventories.
Selling few thousands copies = death for A.net

If you want to continue playing this game and the future GW2, you and A.net absolutely need that casual players can afford what they like spending a "reasonable" amount time in game, and being satisfied with the game they purchased.

Winner.
123456

Fay Vert · Aug 06, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

So in other words, 50% dmg penalty+ not able to maintain Shadow Form= big total hurt on farming bosses and raptors

You have to be a seriously poor player if you can't farm bosses or raptors without perma SF. The notion that SF is needed is a joke.

HawkofStorms · Aug 06, 2008, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

You contradicted yourself.

If SF farming is still going on, then SF didn't get "killed", as you say.

inb4 lock

Agreed.
SF was not killed because perma SF still exists. A.net should have just reverted the skills duration back to what it was before.

All this proves is that all the, as you put them, "QQers" are smarter then A.net, because a nerf to the skills duration was exactly what they were suggesting on these very forums. A.net thought the 50% damage reduction would be enough to nerf it, but we all knew better.

slowerpoke · Aug 07, 2008, 12:12 AM // 00:12

seems like they cant admit they made a mistake so instead of reverting it, they dig a deeper hole by making more changes

R.Shayne · Aug 07, 2008, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

All this proves is that all the, as you put them, "QQers" are smarter then A.net, because a nerf to the skills duration was exactly what they were suggesting on these very forums. A.net thought the 50% damage reduction would be enough to nerf it, but we all knew better.

Linsey Murdock Talk Page

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linsey Murdock

Who said that we never considered reverting SF back to it's pre-buffed state? Sure we did but that's not something we wanted to do and would rather explore other options.

I think some of you are missing the point that they wanted people to be able to solo the UW which would explain why shadow form was buffed in the first place. I started UW as A/Me sometime in April and I know other people were doing it before then and if you read the developer update notes for July 2nd you will see ANET knew about it too.

If I was guessing I would say they wanted more players to be able to perma-sin, they just didn't anticipate how fast they would be able to farm the UW. No one person or small group can come up with all possible scenarios.

I think their goal is to bring the Perma-sin in line with other solo UW farmers without hurting other farming locations (boss farms or raptor farms).

kratimas · Aug 07, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

It did nothing at all. Either way is the same.

Lady Raenef · Aug 07, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

If you want to continue playing this game and the future GW2, you and A.net absolutely need that casual players can afford what they like spending a "reasonable" amount time in game, and being satisfied with the game they purchased.

Someone knows what they're talking about. However, some people can just be happy with regular armor. Three weeks into playing GW, I had elite gladiator already. Do you know how happy I was at the time?

I almost quit GW feeling I had accomplished something, lol.

illidan009 · Aug 07, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

The hell? SF hasn't been killed at all...its like instead of headshotting someone you shoot them with an arrow in the leg. Moves slower, but owns just the same. As long as SF can be kept perma, there will always be a use for it....EVEN IF it can't farm it can run pretty much anywhere

Riceboi · Aug 07, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by illidan009

The hell? SF hasn't been killed at all...its like instead of headshotting someone you shoot them with an arrow in the leg. Moves slower, but owns just the same. As long as SF can be kept perma, there will always be a use for it....EVEN IF it can't farm it can run pretty much anywhere

Alright maybe it's not a headshot but it's like 2 arrows in each leg and 1 in the back. sf is crawling now, on the verge of death...Yes it's that bad as far as farming is concerned.